Home of the official* MG3, MG6, MG GS, MG HS and MG ZS forums Forum Index Home of the official* MG3, MG6, MG GS, MG HS and MG ZS forums

"The most refreshing forum in the galaxy" ó Paul Stowe
"The forum the AROnline forum could have been" ó Keith Adams
"Very committed subhumans" ó NickTL

PATRON: HRH THE DUKE OF YORK*
 
 HomeHome   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


A Birthday - And A Cautionary Tale

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Home of the official* MG3, MG6, MG GS, MG HS and MG ZS forums Forum Index -> The Dr Alex Moulton symposium
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
marinast
1.2 C4 PICASSO


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1347

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:40 pm    Post subject: A Birthday - And A Cautionary Tale Reply with quote

This week (Monday 26th actually) sees the 60th anniversary of the launch of the Mini. To many car enthusiasts the Mini is a thing of wonder and a glorious high point in the history of the UK car industry. But there is a dark side to its existence, itís something that has nagged at me for many years and it is this.

The Mini killed the company.

Of course it took many decades for the poison that was Al Greeks great design to finally kill of the whole of the firm but it sowed the seeds for so much that would hamper and plague future generations of vehicles that itís existence to my eyes is toxic.
The car never really made any money, except maybe in the mid 1970s onwards once the tooling costs had been paid off, but even then it was so labour intensive to make any savings could have simply been eaten up by wage increases.
Itís engine and gearbox combination, while passable for the Mini were on the limit in the ADO16 and ADO67. While Ford and Vauxhall could launch new products with more power and displacement, BMC and later BL were stuck with an upper ceiling on the transverse gearbox unit, the foundations of which were set in stone in 1959. It hampered products like the Maxi, stopped the ADO16 being more of a challenger to the Cortina and later Escort and forced the Allegro and Metro to be limited in their market segments. ADO67 of course had the E Series but the same engineering doctrine used developing that was carried over from the Mini with predictable results.
Also, apart from a brief period it never used Moultons wet suspension systems, never used Hydragas and the company therefore had to use a system just for a single model without benefiting others with economies of scale through shared components.
It also allowed Issigonis too much influence at the company, his design practices were not conducive to developing simple products or new products quickly. It bred contempt within and sadly that forced the company into drastic action later on.

So on Monday raise a glass to the Mini, wish it a happy 60th birthday, but do think about itís long term impact on the company that made it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seamaster



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 3070

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: A Birthday - And A Cautionary Tale Reply with quote

marinast wrote:
To many car enthusiasts the Mini is a thing of wonder and a glorious high point in the history of the UK car industry.


SHITE.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Sward
SWARDUS ET PKLESS


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 1989

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Utterly ridiculous that costs were not only never contained, but the team who could have actively reduced the costs were constantly prevented from doing so. Absolute fool hardy decadence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seamaster



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 3070

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And by the way, surely this DRIVEL should have been a BLOG?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
austin-towers
PLASTIC WELSH SPASTIC


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1127

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good point. ST, get that done.
_________________
MG ZS EV news MG5 EV rumour MINI 60th birthday 2020 MG ZS facelift MG Motor UK analysis 2020 MG ZS revealed at Chengdu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
5ivegearsinreverse
ROBERT JEKYLL & GORDON HYDE


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1344
Location: A Town Called Bastard

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye. Something along the lines of THE GUILTY MADMEN OF LONGBRIDGE starring George Harriman, Greek Al, and Joe Greatorex.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seamaster



Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 3070

PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thereís a great blog waiting to be written by DICK VAN DONGHEAD comparing and contrasting a DIESEL MONDEO VAN and a 1.2 C4 PICASSO. The title writes itself: MISERY LOVES COMPANY.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
austin-towers
PLASTIC WELSH SPASTIC


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1127

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://macdroitwich.co.uk/blog/austin-morris-mini-at-60.html
_________________
MG ZS EV news MG5 EV rumour MINI 60th birthday 2020 MG ZS facelift MG Motor UK analysis 2020 MG ZS revealed at Chengdu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scaramanga
Hormone youngster


Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not certain that the Mini did actually lose money. It's a shame nobody has analysed BMC's profit per vehicle, derived from the corporation's annual financial results.

Oh, someone has done that:

Ian Nicholls says:
25 August 2019 at 1.49 pm

i am now harbouring serious doubts that the Mini was a loss maker, Analysis of BMC profit per vehicle, derived from the annual financial results reveals that the corporation was as profitable as Ford, sometimes more, sometimes less.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marinast
1.2 C4 PICASSO


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1347

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The corporation made profits but it was down to less advanced high profit vehicles that carried the day. Think MG, Jaguar and Rover. The Minor and ADO9 made money once production costs were taken care of and that came early in the production life.
The ADO16/17 and Mini could turn a profit, hence BMC being keen on the pricier badge engineered models but basic models often made a minimum profit for the company and even a few jobs being carried out under warranty could scupper that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nick Besonderes
Modern Gentleman


Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 420
Location: Here

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That did for Borgward, too.

Even the standard Isabella was reckoned to break even at best, due to insufficient automation and somewhat irrational parts sourcing.

The money really came from the commercials.

M-B was reckoned to make so much from its cars, it could buy up the CV market with its sometimes uncompetitive products and swallow up the tiddlers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marinast
1.2 C4 PICASSO


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1347

PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Mercedes Benz products were certainly very well engineered but boy did you pay for it so I can imagine the profit even on their cheapest cars was very high.
BL were stuck targeting the mass market of course so profits were less in return for higher volume. Itís just a shame they did not try to ape what Ford were managing with their Cortina and produce a RWD competitor far earlier, around 1965/66. Yet because of the cult of Issigonis within in the company nothing materialised. I believe Joe Edwards was pushing for years to phase out the ADO9/Minor/A40 and replace it with a simple RWD product, badge engineered of course in a similar manor to what Rootes managed with the Arrow.
Yet we got the Maxi...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ottertronic
STREAMING NOW EXCLUSIVELY ON ISIS VIDEO


Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 1401

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scaramanga wrote:
I am not certain that the Mini did actually lose money. It's a shame nobody has analysed BMC's profit per vehicle, derived from the corporation's annual financial results.

Oh, someone has done that:

Ian Nicholls says:
25 August 2019 at 1.49 pm

i am now harbouring serious doubts that the Mini was a loss maker, Analysis of BMC profit per vehicle, derived from the annual financial results reveals that the corporation was as profitable as Ford, sometimes more, sometimes less.


Rob Golding's Mini book claims that by 1968 the profit on each car was £35, but adds that this could easily be erased by overtime bills. The 35 quid of 1968 equates to about £600 today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
620bob
HORMONAL REMAINIAC


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 1886
Location: Bobniston

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it all hinges on Takt time and man hours to build. Even in overtime you should be able to make a margin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marinast
1.2 C4 PICASSO


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1347

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donít forget time/money lost during strikes.
Or for later paying dealers to fit missing components not installed on the line due to component strikes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
5ivegearsinreverse
ROBERT JEKYLL & GORDON HYDE


Joined: 07 Nov 2018
Posts: 1344
Location: A Town Called Bastard

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marinast wrote:
I believe Joe Edwards was pushing for years to phase out the ADO9/Minor/A40 and replace it with a simple RWD product, badge engineered of course in a similar manor to what Rootes managed with the Arrow.
Yet we got the Maxi...


The Firm. in its broader sense, probably did rather well out of the Arrow as Pressed Steel made the bodies - Joe Edward was MD of PSF at the time.

BMC could just have been wary of making a Hunter clone when Rootes and later Chrysler were providing good business.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Home of the official* MG3, MG6, MG GS, MG HS and MG ZS forums Forum Index -> The Dr Alex Moulton symposium All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


HomeMG NewsBlogMG Forum ∑ Wiki ∑ Brochures

Home of the official* MG3, MG6, MG GS & MG ZS forum Forum Index

Copyright © 2019 MacDroitwich Fisheries